AI Scene-Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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epaddon
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AI Scene-Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy

Post by epaddon »

I can remember over the years a lot of discussions about possible fantasy casting ideas for the show, whether alternate casting ideas for established villains, or possible names for those characters who were never seen on the series. At the top of the list was typically Poison Ivy and it generated the usual redhead names of the 60s (Ann-Margret, Tina Louise etc.)

My own personal #1 choice for Poison Ivy was always a lesser known actress who in all honesty wouldn't have been viable unless the show was still on in 1970-71. Barbara Rhoades was a tall, Amazonian redhead who first appeared in a 1968 Don Knotts comedy "The Shakiest Gun In The West" and then a lot of episodic TV in the 70s as a larger than life presence who could also show the ability flip a man over her shoulder (as she did to Robert Wagner in an episode of "Switch" when playing an undercover cop). She was no empty airhead but someone with a slightly brash street-smart NY type of persona. And IMO she would have personified a tough villainous Poison Ivy like no other name IMO could have even if she would have been off the radar screen for 1967-68 since she was just starting at the time.

Back in the day when I used to write 66 Batman fanfic for the long defunct site run by "twof" I believe his handle was, I contributed two Poison Ivy stories that were specifically written with Rhoades as the template. In those days the stories we'd submit would be illustrated through the use of publicity pix or screencaps from the show or other projects. Since Rhoades of course was never on the show, I had to "sell" the illusion of her as Ivy by mixing in appropriate pictures of her in civilian garb and then saying elsewhere that she was wearing the costume in other scenes. The idea of seeing her in the actual Ivy costume was something that could only be rendered as comic style art (and I remember twof did come up with a comic generated scene of Rhoades as Ivy once when the site was still up) and any live action envisioning could only exist in the mind or badly photoshopped.

But AI technology now is really advancing to the point where it doesn't require too much effort to create a realistic picture of an actor in a role they never played provided you have good reference imagery to work with and in this case all I needed were a couple head shots of Rhoades a picture of a Poison Ivy costume on a mannequin, combining elements to create a "reference image" (with textual description to get her body type correct) and then using reference pix of Adam and Burt in costume and a decent enough text description of a setting, bang I had some eight second sequence (the max you can go) that floored me completely. I'm sharing the links for two of these scenes, one that shows Batman solo in a vine death trap while Ivy gloats and the other that shows Batman and Robin together in the same trap. They're too large for attachments here though I'm furnishing a couple screen caps of the AI scene for reference purposes.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/djkuej99 ... t13sh&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/0pwrcx7i ... zuqnt&dl=0

I'm only sorry our much-missed friend High C never got to make use of this kind of newly emerging technology since he wrote his share of Siren fanfic stories and was hampered by the fact that there were only so many reference images to use of Joan Collins in costume so he would have to resort to other Joan Collins pix and "explain" why Siren was in civilian garb. Something like this would have solved the problem! And of course it's also possible to use this same capability for making other short scenes and maybe envisioning other fantasy guest cast possibilities in other roles too (and I'm sure others would want to know how other Ivy candidates might come out)
Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy #1.jpg
Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy #2.jpg
BiffPow
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Re: AI Scene-Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy

Post by BiffPow »

Very interesting. AI is scary good. And I mean that in every sense.

I can already see studios doing cutbacks, and we will never be able to know what is, and what is not, real.

Having said that, that’s a very cool render. Would not have thought of her, but she certainly would have filled the bill. And I also mean THAT in every sense.
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epaddon
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Re: AI Scene-Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy

Post by epaddon »

Thanks and I agree there is potential for abuse of the idea. To me, it's best use would be a new form of what we see in graphic art/comic book style storytelling to bring those kind of stories to life in a new way and not to show actors in "off-set" mode (I know some Star Trek things have gotten some flack for that). Even with that, if you get to the point where a whole movie could be made that way with dialogue it would also raise some ethical/legal issues over fair use of likeness or how much compensation an estate is entitled to etc. Things will need to be worked out there.
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Yellow Oval
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Re: AI Scene-Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy

Post by Yellow Oval »

I can't say I'm a big AI fan but there's something about it. Watching AI Batman clips on YouTube it's funny how the programming can do renditions of Batman and various other characters better than anything Hollyweird is capable of (or has been). That said, this works great, especially as I always loved the very beautiful and talented Barbara Rhodes who could play it all be it comedy, drama, action, horror, etc. Never thought about her as Poison Ivy, but seeing these images I would have to say she would have been perfect! Always loved her hilarious portrayal of snarky policewoman Hadley in The Choirboys and on old '70s weekend afternoon TV cinema repeats of The Shakiest Gun In The West as cowgirl gunfighter Penelope Cushings alongside the legendary Don Knotts.
"Hmmm... I don't like the twist this joke is taking. Let us away! Let us away!"
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AndyFish
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Re: AI Scene-Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy

Post by AndyFish »

Rhoades was certainly in a lot of things in the 70s and she looks the part, but her Brooklyn accent isn't what I imagine Poison Ivy to have, I also don't think she was a big enough star to carry the villain part since Dozier was looking for name talent for the bad guys.

As impressive as AI can be, it's a bad thing. Everytime someone uses it there is someone else's work being plagiarized. It reminds me of the "When They Came For..." Poem. Maybe AI doesn't affect your livelihood (YET) but hopefully there are still people left to stand against it when it does.

DC Comics recently pledged to never use it and if you're an artist working for them and you get your hand caught in the AI Cookie Jar you will be fired. At Dragon Con in Atlanta last Summer an artist was forcibly removed for violating policy and selling AI art.

I get AI art is all in fun, and it gives everyone a chance to be creative, but understand at what cost.
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epaddon
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Re: AI Scene-Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy

Post by epaddon »

For episodic TV by 1970-71 I think Dozier would have been in more of a cost-cutting mode which is another reason I think there's viability for her by that point. Her attitude I think is also a plus for credible villainy since I don't think of the part as right for someone more demure like Ann-Margret who even at that point in her career was still lacking a good deal of gravitas and still had too much of the "Bye Bye Birdie" innocence (her pairing with Dean Martin in "Murderers Row" frankly comes off as creepy to me). A-M by 1975 had finally hit her stride in that department.

I agree that AI raises some ethical and legal questions especially if the technology is one day applied to the realm of for-profit projects, but at the same time for amateurs like myself who have no artistic talent whatsoever and want to see our own amateur, not for profit stories have some kind of small visual realization, a tool like this is very helpful if it can stimulate writing ideas that again, are and should be strictly for our own personal enjoyment and sharing with fans. Sensible fanfic authors are under no illusions that what they're doing is something they''ll ever make a penny off of. I agree that *no one* should sell AI art or visuals whatsoever. But if someone got fired because on their own time they shared for free something like one of these eight second AI generated videos, then I think you raise an ethical question in the other direction of equally great importance.
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AndyFish
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Re: AI Scene-Barbara Rhoades as Poison Ivy

Post by AndyFish »

Good points.
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